Ebay watch Pt II

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Ebay watch Pt II

Postby MikeP » 08 Oct 2012, 16:52

Here is another antique set: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/c1860-Punch-and-Judy-Theatre-with-Puppets-/150613866934?pt=UK_Antiques_Other_RL&hash=item23114939b6, claiming to be circa 1860. Unfortunateley there is no hint of provenance in the description so only a stylistic judgement can be made.

Whilst I am not questioning there age here, it is interesting to note other vintage sets which have listed on other sites as 'Victorian' when they are clearly not. This set for instance is as case in point: http://www.preloved.co.uk/adverts/show/105264431/set-of-victorian-punch-and-judy-puppets.html. I correspondence the seller said that last owner acquired them second hand in 1930's. Again stylistically they look more 1930's to me than Victorian!

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Re: Ebay watch Pt II

Postby Chris » 08 Oct 2012, 18:23

I don't think there is any reason to suggest that the first set (Ebay) are other than Victorian, although I do question the inflated valuation.
The second set are far from Victorian, in fact as far as I know their maker is still alive.
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Re: Ebay watch Pt II

Postby MikeP » 08 Oct 2012, 20:19

Thanks Chris. I wasn't doubting the authenticity of the first set, just bemoaning a lack of (apparent) provenance! It is rather sad that their story is not know. I suppose we will have to ask Mr Punch himself!

As to the second set, I would be interested in your rough dating. Personally I think that 1930 is at the very limit stylistically and I err to 1950's, even 'tho that contradicts the sellers story!

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Re: Ebay watch Pt II

Postby Chris » 08 Oct 2012, 21:03

Why, what's the seller's story?
If they were made by who I am thinking of then they could have been anytime between, say, 1960 and 1995 I imagine. If they have the original paintwork then is that ER on the policeman's badge? If so it certainly has to be post 1953 (Coronation of Elizabeth 2nd).

By the way, in my experience you very rarely have any provenance with Punch sets, even relatively modern ones. Because people don't value them as antiques or works of art (which most of them are not) they either go in the rubbish bin or they just get packed away and forgotten. It's very frustrating. (isn't it David?)
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Re: Ebay watch Pt II

Postby James » 09 Oct 2012, 08:19

MikeP wrote: I wasn't doubting the authenticity of the first set, just bemoaning a lack of (apparent) provenance! It is rather sad that their story is not know. I suppose we will have to ask Mr Punch himself!


Or just ask a puppet collector or someone with an interest in Punch history, there a few who can tell you who owned those puppets, when they first came up for sale, for how much etc.
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Re: Ebay watch Pt II

Postby Chris » 09 Oct 2012, 10:54

Quite right James. There still are some wonderful discoveries to be made I am sure, but not on EBay I suspect. In the main the same sets of puppets do the rounds as they periodically transfer from one person's attic to another's, and there are keen collectors who keep track of these. This was made possible by the advent of Ebay as a point of central exchange. This has become a bit more difficult now that Ebay conceals the identities of winning bidders. Spoil sports!
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