my art collection

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my art collection

Postby CvdC » 27 Oct 2012, 09:45

I have decided to make public my private collection of art and so I post here an image of my private gallery. As you will see I am an assiduous collector and you will note a persistant theme in my choice of art work.

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Re: my art collection

Postby ProfSoAndSo » 28 Oct 2012, 00:46

That is really funny.
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Re: my art collection

Postby lesclarke » 28 Oct 2012, 12:37

I'm surprised you don't have any Picassos from his Down Under Period.
He travelled around using the name Bendigo Bob, or am I thinking of someone else?
The third print without a caption is I think by Samuel Collings.
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Re: my art collection

Postby CvdC » 29 Oct 2012, 00:10

Bendigo Bob? never heard of him.
But I have been trying to track down the source of this image

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Unfortunately the image was appropriated as a cover for the Moody Blues and image searches have proved impossible. Apparently it comes from the Arts Union in Glasgow so it may be set in Scotland.
However I did find this image from Glasgow online:
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Because it is in the National Library in Australia it may or may not have made it into the recent publication on Scottish P&J.So here it is.The date ca. 1917-19
If anyone knows what street it is please tell me and I will add it to my collection.
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Re: my art collection

Postby martin@no10 » 29 Oct 2012, 10:52

When I first came across that image on the Moody Blues album cover I spent a lot of time trying to track the source down - finally I tracked the etching to the Gabrielle Enthoven Collection in the V&A.

The V&A say:
"Landscape view print showing a Punch & Judy show taking place in a booth in an outdoor setting, accompanied by a one-man band of drummer and pipe-player. The booth is set up in a wide street, probably in Glasgow, outside a walled garden seen to the right of the print. A large group of onlookers of all ages is seen to the left, sitting and standing outside a school and a 'Waggon' office with a notice mentioning London and Glasgow. One child especially enraptured with the performance is standing on his own near the booth whilst another, more mischievous child, is crawling from behind the booth, looking up at the musician."
And:
"View of a Punch and Judy show taking place in the open air, probably in Glasgow. Etching by Mark Lemon from an original by F. Webster RA. Printed for the Art Union of Glasgow, 1859."

They were unable to come up with any further info. However, if I have been able to upload this picture, I think this is the original painting:

Image

I think by an artist called S Slader, who seems to have been painting in the second half of the 19th c - but I have no further info on the painter or the date. The painting looks to be signed in the lower left corner but I haven't been able to enhance or sharpen it enough. So the etching itself is held by the V&A, and could be the Art Union of Glasgow had the etching done based on the original painting - but I don't know how the technicalities of all that works. I don't know where the painting is set - it could well be Glasgow but I don't think it neccessarily is.

The Glasgow street P&J from the National Library of Australia - this photo was taken by Rex Nan Kivell. I have not as yet been able to identify the street. It was taken sometime during the period 1917-19. It possibly shows the street show of Henry Jones (his father, also Henry was a P&J showman who died in Glasgow in 1910. The Jones brothers (Henry & John) continued their father's P&J street shows for many years. However, John fought in WW1, joining up in 1916 and not being demobbed till (I think) 1919, and so if this shows the Jones' show John would not have been involved at this point. It could also be Duval, another Glasgow-based P&J showman. Or one of a number of Codonas - or someone else entirely. It is a great image.

Regards, Martin
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Re: my art collection

Postby Trevek » 29 Oct 2012, 12:46

Great bit of info there, Martin. thanks for sharing it.

Out of curio-sostity, if it was Glasgow, where do you think it may have been?

I'm tempted to suggest Kelvingrove, although is it likely to have been the Green?
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Re: my art collection

Postby CvdC » 29 Oct 2012, 13:09

Thanks very much Martin.
I did manage to search about and found that the painting was put up for Auction last year, with a relatively cheap estimate to:
http://www.criterionauctioneers.com/auc ... cat/64.php
The Arts Union must have had the engraving made to raise funds, which was often done with popular genre paintings of this type. The artist seems to be Samuel Slader, but information on him is not online.
But then who is F. Webster ?
It is interesting that the puppet detail of the painting is a direct copy of Cruikshank.

And I will certainly have a look around Kelvingrove.
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Re: my art collection

Postby martin@no10 » 29 Oct 2012, 20:45

I have found nothing about the F Webster, but I do wonder if the Mark Lemon referred to is the editor of "Punch" (1841-1870) - he was co-editor I think for a while with Henry Mayhew. Lemon was a writer and playwright - in one of his books "With a Show in the North," he refers to a friend of his going into a shop in Glasgow's Saltmarket and buying him a figure of Punch for sixpence. Lemon claimed it "was an excellent model, and one which he should treasure." Of course it may not be the same Mark Lemon, but I wonder if Lemon requested and perhaps paid for the etching to be done by F Webster - the "RA" after Webster's name infers "Royal Academy" - probably there will be details somewhere of all who have been awarded that - unless it is more common than it sounds? It might be that Lemon liked to acquire various images of Punch? Yes the detail of the puppets owes a great deal to Cruikshank. I have found no real info on Samuel Slader, although there are a few other paintings which appear to be by him, but I have found no biographical stuff.

Not clear at all where it could be (if it is Glasgow) but Trevor I see your point about Kelvingrove area - there are buildings on all sides of the park that have that sort of style - including almost right onto Dumbarton Road - but I haven't been able to clearly identify it. I suppose the whole scene could be very generalised/standardised, rather than be anywhere specific?
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Re: my art collection

Postby Chris » 29 Oct 2012, 21:33

There are only a very limited number of Academicians at any one time, and even less who are painters, so it should be relatively easy to get information about past members. That is assuming that RA signifies a member of The Royal Academy of Arts and not The Royal Artillery.
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Re: my art collection

Postby CvdC » 29 Oct 2012, 22:02

Artist: Thomas Webster, Title: Punch, Printmaker: Henry Lemon, Pub: The Art-Union of Glasgow,

This is confusing. Who is S Sladen?
Sometimes artists used readily available engravings to copy. Or could it be the painting auctioned was wrongly attributed? Which would be annoying for the seller.
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Re: my art collection

Postby CvdC » 29 Oct 2012, 22:02

I did wander about the Kelvingrove area of Glasgow. Certainly there are some buildings with balustrade on them but most are three stories high. It could be the area in which the photo was taken is older, the buildings seem less decorative which puts them in the earlier part of the 19th century.
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Re: my art collection

Postby Trevek » 30 Oct 2012, 10:21

If the picture is dated around 1859, it was before both the university and art gallery were built in that area, so the buildings may have been demolished. I am looking parlty at the gated walls, suggesting some kind of private area (Kelvingrove was aimed at the middle classes), and the church tower in the background, as well as what looks to be water in the background (maybe the Kelvin?).

It could prove a fun one for your 'then and now' site, Chris VdC.
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Re: my art collection

Postby martin@no10 » 30 Oct 2012, 12:32

I've had a brief rummage around and there have been several artists by the name of Samuel Slader:
Samuel V Slader
Samuel Ernst Slader
Samuel Machin Slader
I have no idea if they were related - and unclear if the time-frame is necessarily correct, althought one of them was born in Camberwell in 1861 I think. This can demonstrate one of the "dangers" of the internet - none of these googled searches tend to be as worthwhile as looking through books in a quality library or files, folders and boxes in an archive. But something interesting that did come up was an advert from 1834 for a new book published by William Kidd of West Strand, London:
"The Odd Volume; or book of variety, with numerous original illustrations on wood, designed by Cruikshank and Seymour, and engraved by Samuel Slader." Interesting to see the name "Cruikshank" - I am assuming (perhaps incorrectly) that it is the Cruikshank/Collier chap. That perhaps suggests an interesting connection as per CdvC's note about the puppets appearance being from Cruikshank. Seymour was the original illustrator for Dickens' "Pickwick Papers."
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Re: my art collection

Postby lesclarke » 30 Oct 2012, 15:11

What did I say, ...Samuel Collings had popped into my head, I meant as you say, Thomas Webster RA.
He is in Wikithingy as Thomas Webster (artist)
...also painted
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Detail from the big print...

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This below is my favourite P&J performance painting, by a bloke named Elsley.
Arthur John Elsley 1861-1952, Painted in 1912, the painting sold at Christies in 1999 for over £700k!

Image

Not always possible to hold the attention of dogs in the audience.


Image
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Re: my art collection

Postby CvdC » 01 Nov 2012, 00:02

I have had the pleasure of curating an exhibition of paintings to celebrate the 350th anniversary. This exhibition demonstrates how the Punch and Judy show has engaged artists over the years.
Image
http://www.speckinspace.com/punchartgallery/

Scroll horizontally to view all the works. Clicking on a painting will give you a larger image.

I would like to thank the various institutions and private collectors whose paintings I have included and David Wilde for the generous loan of his iconic Punch puppet.
It has been my experience that I am always true from my point of view, and am often wrong from the point of view of my honest critics. I know that we are both right from our respective points of view. - Gandhi (Having a bob each way.)
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