Video experiments

Anything relevant

Video experiments

Postby Chris » 15 Jun 2008, 20:21

<blockquote><center>
Here is some further video experimenting<br><br>
<a href="../flvplayers/flvplayergeoff.htm">CLICK HERE FOR FELIX ON STRIKE</a><br><br><br>

<a href="../flvplayers/flvplayerbbbpunch.htm">CLICK HERE FOR WHY I LOVE PUNCH</a>
<br><br>
It would help if some of you can report back on how slowly or quickly these streaming videos load. It's all a question of balancing speed against quality to decide on the necessary compression.
</center>


</blockquote>
It's good to squawk!
Image
User avatar
Chris
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3216
Joined: 05 Jul 2006, 11:13
Location: North Wales

Postby lesclarke » 15 Jun 2008, 22:43

They load very quickly and the quality is fine. I am on broadband and view them on a Big Mac.
As if I haven't got enough to do today, with all I've got to do today.
User avatar
lesclarke
Joey's Jewels
Joey's Jewels
 
Posts: 756
Joined: 14 Sep 2006, 17:12
Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire

Postby johnstoate » 15 Jun 2008, 22:49

Doubt that it will be much use to you, Chris, but my home-made, short of memory system loads them as fast as it plays - no problems at all, But that's broadband for you! :D
ps, - Is this going to be a regular sort of gallery, - snippets of everyone's shows? - Seems like a nice idea to me.
John
Weaselly distinguished, Stoatelly different!!
User avatar
johnstoate
Joey's Jewels
Joey's Jewels
 
Posts: 821
Joined: 26 Mar 2007, 15:07
Location: Lancashire

Postby Chris » 15 Jun 2008, 23:12

That's good. But there's broadband and there's broadband. Let us hope everybody, or most, give similar response to you.

If it seems likely to be satisfactory the idea isn't to have videos on here so much as on the main website. Chris vdC has been on at me for quite while to get some video on. Personally I don't like them - but I am obviously in the minority judging by the amount of time others spend trawling youtube rather than working on their own shows.
It's good to squawk!
Image
User avatar
Chris
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3216
Joined: 05 Jul 2006, 11:13
Location: North Wales

Postby CvdC » 15 Jun 2008, 23:47

Chris it is just that video best represents puppet shows. Otherwise it is back to the usual written scripts, which we acknowledge as having represented puppet shows poorly over the years.

But don't forget I have also been saying that you need broadband as well.

:evil:
It has been my experience that I am always true from my point of view, and am often wrong from the point of view of my honest critics. I know that we are both right from our respective points of view. - Gandhi (Having a bob each way.)
User avatar
CvdC
Joey's Jewels
Joey's Jewels
 
Posts: 1032
Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 01:02
Location: Antipodes

Postby lesclarke » 16 Jun 2008, 00:32

I find the tiny size of web video very frustrating, it's better than nothing of course, but so often it's poor quality to start with, so for me it's appeal is limited.
Perhaps we should wait for affordable level technology to move forward, and encourage more people to produce decent videos to start with.
At present it may occasionally be useful, but it doesn't 'grab' me!
As if I haven't got enough to do today, with all I've got to do today.
User avatar
lesclarke
Joey's Jewels
Joey's Jewels
 
Posts: 756
Joined: 14 Sep 2006, 17:12
Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire

Postby Chris » 16 Jun 2008, 09:28

<blockquote>Chris vdC, I can imagine your surprise but I disagree. Why do I need broadband? It doesn't alter the video one iota apart from the time it takes to down/upload and that is simply a matter of patience. I have very good reasons for not using broadband.

But more importantly I cannot agree that video best represents puppet shows. Puppet shows are a "live" medium, Punch in particular. Video or any kind of filming serves them badly. I have yet to see a video of a Punch show that flatters the original.

I am speaking here with some experience having worked on over a thousand television shows using all kinds of puppets. The programs that work, that enhance the puppet, are those shows designed for filming and taking account of the possibilities and limitations of the medium. An example would be The Muppet Show or even the Santa Claus Punch and Judy film. On the other hand filming puppet performances designed for live viewing are just unsatisfactory. I've seen this over and over again. Anyone who has worked on television or film with puppets will tell you the same thing - not only are the puppets specially made for the medium but also the technique is very very different from that for a live performance.

Of course video does have its uses. As a rehearsal aid it is invaluable. Also its use as an historical record keeper is self-evident. The trouble is that a well made video of a Punch and Judy Show (that is shot properly as a video) would not be a true historical record of that show. Conversely lock off the camera full frame and film an actual live show and you would have an accurate record but an uninspiring piece of video.

I don't allow video in my theatre. The same obtains in every theatre in Britain as far as I know. This is not just for reasons of copyright protection. A video of a live show is rarely a good advert for that show.

So no Chris, video does not best represent puppet shows. It doesn't get the smell.</blockquote>
It's good to squawk!
Image
User avatar
Chris
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3216
Joined: 05 Jul 2006, 11:13
Location: North Wales

Postby Tony James » 16 Jun 2008, 12:47

What Chris has pointed out applies equally I feel to film of old variety artistes. Even with 'live' audiences and film of the act as known, there is something lacking. And I remember seeing some of these old acts live in theatres.

One thing for sure is atmosphere which has a crackle element to it in real life. Maybe one has to have experienced that excitement in order to recall it. It doesn't work for me with film but it does with recordings made live.

Perhaps it works because like radio, the pictures of the mind are so much better. I can't explain it. I can tell you for example that Max Miller whose stage presence was electric, doesn't work for me on film but live recordings certainly do.

Maybe that's because it jolts the memory of him. It might not work for people who haven't seen and experienced him.
Tony James

Magic With A Punch!
User avatar
Tony James
Joey's Jewels
Joey's Jewels
 
Posts: 664
Joined: 08 Aug 2006, 21:22
Location: Cheshire UK

Postby Chris » 16 Jun 2008, 14:42

Yes, if you've seen and enjoyed something then a video taken at the time can be a pleasing record. That to me is the video recorder's real value. But you have to have experienced the original.
It's good to squawk!
Image
User avatar
Chris
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3216
Joined: 05 Jul 2006, 11:13
Location: North Wales

Postby Chris » 16 Jun 2008, 14:48

Les bemoaned the small size. Here's the violin at a larger size. I think this is as large a size and as good a quality that is likely to be a reasonable proposition. Let me know how it works.
<a href="../flvplayers/flvplayercabaretviolin.htm"><center>CLICK ME</center></a>
It's good to squawk!
Image
User avatar
Chris
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3216
Joined: 05 Jul 2006, 11:13
Location: North Wales

Postby CharlesTaylor » 16 Jun 2008, 18:44

Chris,

I so enjoyed seeing the larger version of the violinist. Speaking for one who lives half way around the world, I probably would not have any other way of seeing this act. But what I enjoyed about the larger video was that I could see more detail of the expression of the puppet face which is very sensitively done. This piece is quite sublime in both manipulation, choice of music and detail of face, hands, and violin. Thank you for sharing it. And they loaded quickly and played fine. The quality lost some pixels but I still could see detail. I use a Mac computer and have been very happy with it’s speed. It is the rapid change in technology that makes it so difficult to afford to keep up.

My wife and I have wanted to visit England again but are concerned with the falling American dollar, gas prices and concern as to whether we can afford to come across the pond. Then again, Perhaps we can’t afford to miss the opportunity before we’re too old to travel.

Meanwhile, the videos, as imperfect as they may be, give us an idea of what puppetry is like in Great Britain. My daughters have been very encouraged by seeing the variety of Punch and Judy short performances on You Tube. They are practicing and improving their swazzeling with great enthusiasm. Watching the videos have given them more freedom to express their own versions of routines rather than be static and go just by the scripted Punch they have used. So we see the videos very valuable lessons of how to improve or what not to do by examples of mistakes by others. But I must agree that videos can not replace a live show. It does lack that dimension of taking in the spontaneity and three hundred sixty degree view of performance and audience instantaneous interaction.

Carol did a solo performance on my last day of teaching at my school for all the kindergarten and first grade classes. We had nearly one hundred children who were wildly enthusiastic and would other wise never have seen a Punch and Judy show. We have many bookings for this summer and into the winter.

Charles
Puppeteer-Teacher-Learner-Enthusiast
CharlesTaylor
Thick Link
Thick Link
 
Posts: 171
Joined: 11 Aug 2006, 17:56
Location: Long Beach, California, USA

Postby lesclarke » 16 Jun 2008, 19:30

It look really good, and to me this makes a huge difference in enjoyment.

I think that to get the best balance between size and quality v download speed you may even be able to go slightly smaller and lose nothing in terms of detail and viewability.

If reducing from a screen size of this 19cm x 15.5cms to 15cms x 12cms
makes a worthwhile saving, then I think it will still be a useful and pleasant size to view.
As if I haven't got enough to do today, with all I've got to do today.
User avatar
lesclarke
Joey's Jewels
Joey's Jewels
 
Posts: 756
Joined: 14 Sep 2006, 17:12
Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire

Postby CvdC » 16 Jun 2008, 22:16

That is good Chris. My internet is currently on 64 kbps and the video downloaded well ahead of its playing. This meant that there was no pause at all. The small size is far too small. I note that the standard size on youtube is 640 x 480, which is the size you make a video for television.

But have you found a way to put live shows on the web site?

If we happened to be discussing the kissing scene on this board is it not better that we can refer to a video sequence rather than typing: "kissy, kissy, kissy!" Which rather misrepresents what it actually is in reality. You can write paragraphs about the synchronised movement of the two puppets and the conflict of wills - As we have done for years. But now technology has given us the opportunity to use video. A simple link to you tube and the job is done.

Having seen James perform in May I should like to emphasise that his show is much better than the above video would seem to suggest.
Last edited by CvdC on 17 Jun 2008, 03:02, edited 1 time in total.
It has been my experience that I am always true from my point of view, and am often wrong from the point of view of my honest critics. I know that we are both right from our respective points of view. - Gandhi (Having a bob each way.)
User avatar
CvdC
Joey's Jewels
Joey's Jewels
 
Posts: 1032
Joined: 12 Aug 2006, 01:02
Location: Antipodes

Postby Chris » 16 Jun 2008, 22:35

I think if you look back you will see that I mentioned that this was made when James was younger and inexperienced. If I didn't make that clear I do him a great mis-service. It was also done without an audience. Also as I maintain video always gives a poor impression of the performer. All shows are better than the video would suggest. You are quite right that James does a good show.

But that's just the point. I selected that bit of video because it had an amusing twist on the kissing scene - a joke which at least Les got. I did not put it up for James' technique to be judged. But inevitably that is how you saw it - as will many others.
It's good to squawk!
Image
User avatar
Chris
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3216
Joined: 05 Jul 2006, 11:13
Location: North Wales

Postby lesclarke » 16 Jun 2008, 23:25

The clip of James' show also illustrates another aspect that is involved in how we view things - our EXPECTATIONS.

So often when viewing a P&J show, live, or even more so with a recorded show, we have GREAT EXPECTATIONS, and as others have said, recordings even of very good shows can seem a bit flat.

With James' clip there was forewarning that it wasn't a supremely presented example, and so, when I watched I enjoyed it very much. I suppose I had reduced my expectations and so found it really enjoyable.To be supremely effective as video it would have needed to be shot with that in mind.

Even with some of my favourite films or comedy progs I have to be in the mood', and watching video of one's own show takes at least three views before one stops noticing the 'errors'.
As if I haven't got enough to do today, with all I've got to do today.
User avatar
lesclarke
Joey's Jewels
Joey's Jewels
 
Posts: 756
Joined: 14 Sep 2006, 17:12
Location: Huddersfield, West Yorkshire

Next

Return to Punch Chat

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron