what do people use for Amplification

[Chris]

To Chris vdC
Thanks for drawing my attention to the dead links regarding Period Music sources. However I don't see the point of your remark "But given you no longer advocate recorded music perhaps they shouldn't be there at all?" On what do you base that?
Firstly the link was for period music for Punch and other Puppet Shows. As you know well enough I always use recorded sound in the majority of my puppet shows. Also I always play recorded music before and after my Punch Show. I have nothing against recorded music - in the right place of course.
But I don't think editing play lists on a lap top during a punch show, or having a mike plugged into a Usb socket for a Punch show, or using floor standing pateo speakers to amplify the voice are good ideas at all - from purely practical reasons which will surely be obvious to anyone who actually performs Punch shows.
And yes I have an Ipod - and it is great for some things but I find Cassette or MiniDisc easier to manage with gloved hands in the confines of the booth. Another consideration with all these gadgets, Ipads, Lap tops or whatever, all require linking cables - always vulnerable in the hurly burly of the show and in a confined place. They all require unplugging and locking in the car if you move from the booth. They all present an extra battery to remember to put on charge.
Personally I love my digital toys - but I don't think the Punch booth is the right place in which to play with them.

[johnstoate]

A couple of minor points; Horn speakers are GREAT! - wouldn't use anything else, lovely tinny sound that carries, and suits a Punch show down to the ground. Secondly, (And this may sound like a 'dubious' question), but how do you propose pressing all the buttons on this modern technological nonsense???? - I usually find that I have both hands full of dolls for the majority of the show

[CvdC]

Of course there is a place for recorded sound. I have worked to recordings all my life. But I don't think it mixes happily with Punch. If I were to try Chris vdC's idea of introducing it for Pretty Pol it would only work if it were introduced in other parts as well. Also it would have to be solo instrument to make it plausible.

But I still think better not.

and

Since recorded music has very little, if any, place in a Punch and Judy show

I can now see you meant that music to be played before and after a show when it does have a place.

I myself do not use recorded music when I do a show but have recently been considering it for my Courtier puppet because I do not know how to sing "forever blowing bubbles" or any other song. Now I use a crank organ for music before the show. This attracts people to the booth and is quite suitable for a Punch and Judy show. But it cannot be played while I am in the booth. The other week I had someone playing it for me while I danced a puppet and it seemed to work quite well.

I have a phone that has an mp3 player. It fits in my pocket and can connect to the PA with a lead that goes directly out of the booth to the PA which is next to it. It has its own battery. The only reason I was considering it is because it is far less fiddly to simply touch a screen on the phone to play a song - A simple tap between puppets ( you see I am fully aware of the practicalities). I was just taking up the point that the recent developments in technology have made it much less complicated to do such things. It makes it possible but not compulsory. Like using amplifiers and microphones used to be.

[Chris]

Since my previous remarks which you quote almost exactly mirror what I posted yesterday I see absolutely no contradiction, nor do I see any justification whatsoever in your suggestion:

But given you no longer advocate recorded music......

I do advocate recorded music, but simply express the opinion, which I imagine is shared by the majority of punch performers, that it has very limited use within a Punch Show. It certainly does not have sufficient importance to design your sound system for the demands of music as opposed to vocal clarity.
I know you are not stupid so I can only think you are being provocative when you suggest that it is easy to use an mobile phone in your pocket with puppets on your hands. What a load of nonsense.

I have a phone that has an mp3 player. It fits in my pocket and can connect to the PA with a lead that goes directly out of the booth to the PA which is next to it. It has its own battery. The only reason I was considering it is because it is far less fiddly to simply touch a screen on the phone to play a song - A simple tap between puppets ( you see I am fully aware of the practicalities).

Obviously you are not.

On a different tack, you asked in a previous post:

I have found that I was performing to the mic and neglecting the puppets so I recently bought myself a lapel mic. However I notice most performers (beyond punch) wear head mics these days. I'm still trying to work out the difference.(?)

Lapel mikes are non directional and thus very prone to cause horrendous feedback. The best microphone for our purposes is a directional (cardioid) microphone. As you say, those who prefer radio microphones go for the directional head or neck mounted variety which properly used do not give the same feedback problems.

[CvdC]

I have a shelf across the front of my booth on which I put the phone. The phone is quite useful, I can use it when I am in London, I have even used it to video shows. I can use it to make posts on this board. I can use its GPS to find locations, I use it to phone people at venues to ask where I should set up, I use it as a watch and it has an mp3 player which can be plugged into the PA.
I have not had a problem with the lapel mic regarding feedback. Perhaps I am using it wrongly?

[Chris]

I am very well aware of the value and utilities of the internet enabled mobile phones, and you are very well aware that I was commenting on the practicality of using such a device during a Punch show.

As for your lapel microphone - try it in your back pocket.
I only relayed what is the standard advice about the relative value, use and shortcomings of the various kinds of microphone, and I only did so in answer to your question. But I bow to your experience.

[CvdC]

I too was commenting on the practicality of using the phone during the show.

As for the mic, perhaps the technology has changed. Which is of course the point signor Toccaceli was making above. It gets more versatile, smaller and needs to reconsidered periodically.
It appears the Mipro lapel mic is unidirectional.
But the first squawk I get I'll ditch the lapel mic and buy the head set.

[johnstoate]

When you two have quite finished squabbling.... - I've thought of a way to do it! ... Use the phone thingy in the show, And let Punch press the buttons! On a serious note though, Isn't there a problem with performing rights when using recorded music? - As I understand it if you, as an entertainer, perform music as part of a performance that's OK. But if you use a recording, you are required to have a music licence (As it used to be called)and pay royalties to the original artist.

[Chris]

If you perform any music in public you need to be licensed by the Performing Rights Society.
If you use recorded music in public then you need to hold a license from the Performing Rights Society and another license from Phonographic Performances Ltd.
If you transfer music from CD, cassette or vinyl to some other form (min disk, mp3 file, cd or cassette) you should be licensed for dubbing rights - these are granted by the copyright holder (eg CD producing company).

Performing Rights Society collects Royalties on behalf of the composers, lyricists and music publishers - the copyright holders of the music.
Phonographic Performances Ltd collect Royalties on behalf of the performers and the record producers of recorded performances.

[Chris]

CvdC
What is the point of a unidirectional lapel mike to the Punch performer? Unidirectional means that it receives sound largely from one direction. Few of us have our mouths situated anywhere near our lapels. If you are looking up at your puppets I would think it patently obvious that a mike mounted on your lapel is going to be grossly less efficient at picking up your sounds from your mouth than a head, neck or suspended mike in front of your face. Lapel mikes were designed principally for interviewing, intended to be unobtrusive and capable of picking up a two way conversation. I can see that a magician or actor looking ahead, or looking down, might just get away with a lapel mike - although you rarely see it do you? They are used on television quite a bit, but in an artificially controlled environment where positioning and movement are carefully planned to avoid feedback and the picking up of extraneous sounds.

[CvdC]

I think you may have a point there
Thanks

But I am finding that the difference between having your head up or straight forward is only marginal with a unidirectional lapel mic.