pitches from the past

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pitches from the past

Postby CvdC » 29 Jun 2012, 00:12

Speaking of Liverpool:
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I have been playing this little online game.


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I'm restricted to where Google maps street view will take me but:


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and



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good wholesome entertainment


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This was easy as it never changes
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And on Swanage beach 1969. This rather good image was on Flickr

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and lastly:

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Re: pitches from the past

Postby Richard Coombs » 29 Jun 2012, 15:17

Wonderful stuff CvdC .. you clever chap.
Thanks for sharing.

I don't have your photoshop skills to put the two together in any way ..But here is my home town , Herne Bay circa 1953 and 2011 ..the pair building is now not there at all ! ..they spent last Autumn pulling it down ..the actual Pier is there still , just not the big tin hut Sports Hall and roller rink ..all goney-gone , like the Punch and Judy .

Colin Bennet was Punch and Judy man there form 1953 at least ( probably earlier , Geoff Felix would doubtless know) ..until at least 1970 , as I know for sure I was seven when I watched his show ...I may have 9 0r 10 , not sure ? )

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Re: pitches from the past

Postby CvdC » 29 Jun 2012, 23:42

I'll put those two images together for you Richard.
This could be a project everyone could get involved with. All you need to do is find an old picture of a show that has a distinguishing feature to locate where it was taken. You then print the image, go to the spot and, holding up the print, find the position the original photo was taken. Then take a wider photo with your camera by walking backwards a few steps. The pictures are then photoshopped together with a bit of a drop shadow and voila, a bit of time travel. I am quite happy to perform this task for you if you cannot. We'll end up with an interesting record of historic pitches around the uk.
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If possible the above picture would have been a bit better for this purpose if the modern view were a bit further back so you got a sense of how much the place had changed.
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Re: pitches from the past

Postby Dan » 30 Jun 2012, 21:09

Thought I'd give this ago too.

'Punch' or 'Mayday' by Benjamin Robert Haydon outside Madame Tussauds on Marylebone Road.
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Great Yarmouth seafront with the Hippodrome Circus in the background.
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Various images from Great Yarmouth Beach.
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Re: pitches from the past

Postby Richard Coombs » 30 Jun 2012, 21:28

Oooh nicely done Dan and CvdC.

Yup I know Chris , maybe next time Im visiting the folks I will try to approximate it better .( especially while the pier structure remains empty of a building)

Having said that , I am fairly certain by looking at the 1950s photo where it was shot.

From the height perspective , the camera was up on the flat roof of one of the Arcades , not at pavement height.
The view would be obstructed by the arcade buildings if taken from the next road back ( it is a steepish hill , so you can 'sort of' see over the Arcades ..but not enough to get that shot.

And the only road that cuts between the Arcades by the Pier , does so , unsurprisingly, level with the actual Pier front ..which gives a great head on view of it ....but not the view in the old photo which is slightly to one side of the entrance.

The result ..by almost Poirot like deduction , is that the camera had to be on the Arcade roof top.

So I cannot replicate a wider one CvdC.

Like you I got the Photo from Google Maps ...and did a considerable amount of manoeuvring about to get as close to the angle , if not the depth.

Anyhow ...nicely lined up in photoshop ...nice result Bravo and Thank you !
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Re: pitches from the past

Postby Trevek » 30 Jun 2012, 22:01

Wow, a great idea. I was wondering if there were any pictures of Whitley Bay or Tynemouth, where I probably saw my first P&J. Not found much yet, but this is interesting...

Sadly the YT link is private, but perhaps they'd be up for releasing it if we ask nicely.

http://www.twmuseums.org.uk/engage/blog ... -to-do-it/
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Re: pitches from the past

Postby CvdC » 30 Jun 2012, 22:35

I know the problem Richard. If anyone living in London could take the Leicester street photo again I would be able to improve that. Working with Google Maps has its frustrating limits. Another issue is trees growing. So you might need an axe. Great stuff Dan and Richard, the collection grows so quickly!
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Re: pitches from the past

Postby CvdC » 02 Jul 2012, 00:12

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With this image at Whitley Bay that was on the web site given above we have a booth set up near some sort of kiosk, which may no longer be there.
If you know where along the beach this booth was usually set up you could get a wider image from Google (the google van recorded along the promenade there) and I could photoshop it into place. It is of course better if someone went down there and took the photo. I looked about but looking at this place gave me an urge to go to Spain for a holiday.

Here's a photo that would be an interesting challenge to locate:

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It was taken around 1895 in Ilfracomb in Devon by Paul Martin while on holidays.

The building in the background is no longer existant as a far as I can tell. You would need to know the location of that building and then use the hill to precisely locate where this wonderful booth was set up.

Here is another view of Ilfracombe taken around the same time. In the background you can see the same building.
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As this was taken from the Chapel you could get your bearings and with a bit of detective work and triangulation pin point where Mr Martin took the photo.
This is my guess as to where the booth was set up.

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Down on the sand there perhaps.

Now I looked at the map and from the chapel I imagined a line with the church on the left. I then zoomed in to the area this line pointed at.

And while wondering along the road your trusty Google traveller noticed this:

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Yes it is the building we see in the distance.
Now if I moved backwards to have that building at the correct distance ..
Ah hah I am back to the place I thought was the spot.
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This is indeed where the photo was taken. Only down the steps on the sand. The newer "Landmark" may be in the background instead of the hills and hotel building. But the photo position could be photographed if someone were in Ilfracomb. And it certainly looks like a lovely place to visit I must say.

The Marylebone Road pitch depicted by Benjamin Haydon, Dan has supplied above, can be photographed quite precisely. I have been there and was surprised to find the building tucked in behind the booth is still there. Haydon didn't make anything up. He lived near by and must have sketched the church and adjacent buildings from life. Regents park was at the time used to graze live stock before their final journey to the meat market. This is where he got the model for the farmer and sheep dog depicted standing in front of the booth. This is how I came upon the idea that the position may have been an actual pitch used by Pike, who may also have lived nearby and so could be on hand to model for the painting.
The photos I took myself of this area are a bit too leafy. So after autumn it would be good for someone to take these photos again. I reckon the exact location can be found.
House depicted opposite church in painting. You can just see that the moulding on the building matches with that inn the painting.
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And the church and trees with lots of obscuring leaves.
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Ooh, after all that I feel myself coming over all obscure. I'd better get a cup of tea.
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Llangefni Wales

Postby CvdC » 02 Jul 2012, 07:04

Llangefni Wales
This is an image from Chris S.
I am unsure what makes this image from this particular place. But not doubting it I went to the Google version and put in the hard yards. Luckily it's a small village.
The picture has a sign saying the Lion Inn, but that place does not seem to exist any longer.
So this is the best match I could come up with. Again I couldn't match it precisely because the google van was on the wrong side of the road to get the distance I needed.
The bay window that is seen in the image matches the one in the google street view. The old pub may be the newer facade you see. The other windows seem to match and the road falls away in the same manner as in the older image.
See what you think?

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Here is the street view:

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It has been my experience that I am always true from my point of view, and am often wrong from the point of view of my honest critics. I know that we are both right from our respective points of view. - Gandhi (Having a bob each way.)
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Re: pitches from the past

Postby Chris » 02 Jul 2012, 20:56

Far from being a small village Llangefni is the capitol of Ynys Môn, the island of Anglesey (also known as Mam Cymru or the mother of Wales). I'm also pretty sure you have the wrong location, although not by very much. You certainly are on the right side of the road since that was where the Red Lion pub used to be in 1889. If you look to the right hand side (of your picture) you will see The Bull, and the clock tower is in the middle beyond the clock tower, and set to the right is the town hall, in front of which was the market square. It was the market which drew the crowds and which Punch took advantage
Below is a turn of the century view from the market end:
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All a bit pointless though!
It's good to squawk!
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Re: pitches from the past

Postby CvdC » 02 Jul 2012, 23:34

Pointless?
Perhaps. But it is only a game. It sort of brings the past into the present, visually. When you look at these old photos they are interesting, to see how the booths looked back then, the way crowds gather and position themselves around the show in much the same way they still do. Then you notice where they have been set up, taking advantage of passing people, a place they won't be too much in the way. For anyone, such as ourselves, who have set up a Punch booth all this is very familiar. We look at these photos differently as a result.

But of course you know all that. I am stating the obvious.

Then you think what is it like today? Or conversely, what was that spot like back then. So you put them together in one image. I certainly didn't invent the concept. In fact it is quite popular. In Amsterdam they had a program where they would display signs of historic photos of an area at the precise location the photo was taken.

Now that cameras all have GPS and with Google maps location and image have become all the rage. So that is the point. I am just doing it with our favourite subject. Have you used Google Maps or Google Earth?

Cross referencing one old photo with another is also fun. Try matching that image above with the same view in Google maps street view, find the same position the original photo was taken and make a screen shot of it.
Of course it would be even more interesting to go to the actual place and see if you can take a photo that matches it. But that involves travel. Next year I may do this. You can record the GPS location in Google and your navigation device will even take you there, with voice instructions in the accent of your choice.
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Re: pitches from the past

Postby CvdC » 03 Jul 2012, 04:26

Chris, just to try your patience further on this. Here is the same image of the bustling metropolis of Llandefni shown above as it is today.
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The pub you point out seems to be called the Market today (see below). Perhaps it was renamed at some stage (?).
But if that were so surely we would see the intersection opposite the clock in the original photo (or can you?). And the window above the shop next door is different, although it seems to be the same age.
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Anyway it was nice to visit the capitol of Anglesey. Can't say much about the night life though.
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Re: pitches from the past

Postby Chris » 03 Jul 2012, 10:49

Chris, I don't quite know what you are trying to say. But it isn't worth arguing about if that is what you are doing. I know the town very well. I have walked those streets. I have worked Punch there. I have researched this photo. I have spoken to the locals. I have consulted the county archivist. But my interest has been to try and discover whether this was Codman or not - which strikes me as worthwhile. However I cannot get excited about exactly on which square metre the booth was located even though I could physically stand on the spot, exactly, because I have been shown where the Red Lion stood before it was pulled down.
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Re: pitches from the past

Postby lesclarke » 03 Jul 2012, 12:02

Interesting and visually striking stuff CVDC, I find them fascinating.

...and sort of 'makes you think' about time etc, and how temporary we are, better not dwell on that, but many of the buildings, and certainly other landmarks go on much longer, as does Punch himself.
Mind your head, ...on that light fitting!!!!!
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Re: pitches from the past

Postby CvdC » 03 Jul 2012, 13:05

Argue? Not arguing at all. I think it my writing must be bad if you think that. I was just trying to clarify something. It is interesting,as Les says, that's all. I'm just trying to see if I can match the photos and get it right. It has nothing to do with the space on which the booth was set up. Just the photos, now and then.
Perhaps next time you are there you could take a photo and we can see how some bits stay the same while others change. It is such a nice old photo it would be nice to include it in this.
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