Forstner bit?

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Postby Chris » 20 Jul 2007, 11:57

Another point that is worth making is that glove puppets generally are made with a shorter and snug neck hole which grips the finger but does not enclose the lower knuckle which acts as a neck joint. However this is not the case with Punch figures with their bigger, heavier heads and the need to get them on and off rapidly. Loose and sloppy is an advantage with Punch costumes, armholes and neckholes.

PS. James, I understand that Miraiker's neckholes are mink-lined.





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Postby Miraiker » 20 Jul 2007, 13:10

As I tend to make for the more discerning Punch performer I like them to have the luxury of not ripping their fingers on tacks sticking through the neck.
Mink is getting harder to find these days so I'm going to have to start farming them myself or else lower the standard to ermine.
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Postby CvdC » 20 Jul 2007, 23:43

Nick please don't read this as though I am nit picking or trying to have a debate about hole sizes for fingers but I am just genuinely curious.
The reason being that I use a spade bit that is 15/16ths wide. I carve the puppet so that the basic shape has been formed leaving the ears square. I use the square ears to hold the head in the vice while I drill the hole.
I once used a bit that was an inch wide (25mm in Australia) but that was far too loose. So I went down a bit (to 23mm). And to give the hole a bit of padding and smoothness I put leather in it. I thought this was a good fit, my fingers being neither fat nor thin. However while in London someone remarked on how loose the fit was. I also noticed how this persons puppets were such a good fit, giving the heads maximum response to the movement of the finger. The heads didn't feel as though they would fall off which can make you perform a bit stilted, if you know what I mean. So I actually asked and was shown the bit he used. I even wrote down the size of the bit. 7/8th (22mm in this hemispehere) . Although he did not pad the inside. I think it was sanded however. Older puppets I tried on (Tickner) were not padded but had a nice smoothness that allowed for a snug fit while still allowing the puppet to be easily slipped on and off.
So you see why I have taken to this topic, as trivial as it may seem.
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Postby johnstoate » 21 Jul 2007, 00:07

Having just read Miraker's comment about using Ermine instead of mink, I might just keep a low profile on this subject!
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Postby Chris » 21 Jul 2007, 09:57

I would have thought Miraiker's attentions would be the least of your worries John.<br>
<center><img src="images/stoatsandwiches.jpg" width="300" height="316" alt="wait for it"></center>



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Postby johnstoate » 21 Jul 2007, 10:58

OOer, - But at least there's no 'E's in 'em! :lol: - 'Course, the Kenneth Grahame version of the family is nearer to reality!!
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Postby CharlesTaylor » 21 Jul 2007, 17:51

Regarding using a power drill over hand drill, I must agree with Chris that the hand drill would be preferable.

A few years ago I was drilling with an electric drill using an auger bit. After about one inch depth, the auger bit stuck and the electric drill quickly turned pulling my thumb out of socket. Not to be slowed down at my task, I took the drill in my left hand and repeated the same painful action. So as the proverb says, do as Chris tells you, not as I did! I have suffered so much I can barely hold a pencil or pen in hand to write. Typing is much easier for me now.


I have no expertise at carving and so prefer sculpting in plasticene or paper mache. My paper mache Punch figures have necks that are built over a three quarter inch P.V.C. pipe that is cut four or five inches long and imbeded in a styrofoam base. The paper mache is then formed over that. I prefer to sand the cut edges smooth of the P.V.C. finger hole. It seems to fit most hands comfortably but certainly the idea of padding with felt would make it even better.

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Postby johnstoate » 21 Jul 2007, 18:39

Er, Charles, - I don't wish to sound as if I'm nit-picking, but I understand that English Imperial measure,(Ft.& inches) differs slightly from your, American version. Is this so? and if so, what are the metric equivalents? Personally I hate this continental metric nonsense, but schools today don't teach anything else, took me ages to teach my kids 'proper' measure!! :D
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Postby Chris » 21 Jul 2007, 19:58

I am pretty sure that feet and inches are exactly the same in America as in Britain John. And as for your "continental metric nonsense", it was actually a British invention.
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Postby johnstoate » 21 Jul 2007, 20:04

Ah, In which case, I stand corrected. Some measure IS different though, possibly it's liquids? - As for metric being a Brit invention, Yes, but it wasn't untill it was taken up by continentals (Like concentration camps) that it became well-known!
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Postby Chris » 21 Jul 2007, 20:19

Oh, twas pretty well known among those who counted.
School physics was all conducted in Centigrade even in my youth.

I think the US ton is different, and one of the liquid measures maybe.



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Postby CharlesTaylor » 22 Jul 2007, 23:10

John,

I’m surprised you didn’t ask, “What’s P.V.C. pipe. After I wrote that, I wondered if you had the same materials. We use the P.V.C. pipe for under ground pipes for lawn sprinklers.

I believe our inches, feet and yards are probably the same. About forty some years ago we started to convert to teaching the metric system but too many people balked. Yes it is confusing because I never learned the metric. Same thing with Fahrenheit and Centigrade. We use Fahrenheit. But usually our thermometers give both. Sometimes our rulers do that, give both.

Now I get confused when I hear British on the B.B.C. America (My favorite station) refer to people’s weight in stones. We use pounds. You use pounds instead of dollars. It’s amazing that we have a language that somewhat overlaps. Torches are flashlights, lifts are elevators, and so many others!

And spelling? Well, I like theatre but always get marked down for not spelling theater. I wonder if our spelling has a similar reason as the changing of the fork from the left hand to the right.

Our eating habits began with the American Revolution. It has been stated by some historians that Americans developed the fork routine to show the British that we were not cruder but actually had “more manners” by the extra movement of the fork! Implying that we were just as good as you English if not better! Oh those rebellious colonist!

Perhaps the simpler spelling shows an admiration for simplicity. I’m sure there must be a reason.

Oh so long ago, Please don’t let me wind you up. :lol:
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US "English"

Postby Trev » 28 Jul 2007, 11:39

Another importan thing to remember about eating, Charles, is that in British restaurants we ask for the bill and may pay with a cheque, whereas in US they ask for the check and may pay with a bill.

I believe US foot size is different too.
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Postby Professor Eek » 29 Jul 2007, 16:31

... and don't ask for a cigarette on this board ...

I had a friend who, in San Francisco, ensured stares and silence when proclaiming in a lift (elevator) that he was dying to get outside for a fag.

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